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IP cameras have missing recording blocks, cctv
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West Coast Jones
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October 12, 2015 - 12:44 am
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I have a SCK Federal Series 960H DVR, SKU: HYBDVR-FE016480 running 2 IP cameras along with 7 analog cameras. All cameras are from SCK.

The 2MP 1080p Network IP IR Dome Security Camera [#ELI-SIP-EMVD-21-4R]& and the 2 Megapixel ONVIF TP Series IP Long Range IR Bullet Camera [#IPOB-TP2MP250L660-W] do not record consistently, they both drop recording time to time for mostly short time frames of maybe a minute or so. They do not drop out together but each on its own. Can happen night or day.

The constant recording can be good for hours at a time, but then drop recording of one or the other for, most of the time, short time frames. Sometimes the time frames can be just for a short section, minute or so, but other times the missing sections can be a chain of blocks that are recording less than a minute, with a minute or so missing record section, and run for quite some time, then go back to normal good recording.

To try and visualize what I am saying, say in the following example - is recording and is not recording in the green bars at the bottom of the search menu screen & maybe run good for hours or maybe most of the day or night, then go to then back to good recording for some random time frame again. During this the analog cameras are recording just fine. And like I said, the IP cameras do not necessarily drop out together, and if and when they do, the timing is not the same.

 Here is a photo of one of the episodes, 2 top lines are analog PTZ and a dome camera, third down is the ELI-SIP-EMVD-21-4R camera and the bottom is the IPOB-TP2MP250L660-W camera.

record-2.jpgImage Enlarger

This has been going on for months now, both cameras were set up by SKC by taking remote control of my computer to do so.

The only change I have tried has been to drop the frame rates on all cameras to 15 fps, with no change seen.

All cameras are set to record 24/7. Motion enabled on all cameras except the ELI-SIP-EMVD-21-4R which doesn’t support it,  but the scheduling is not enabled on any cameras, as all are already 24/7 recording.

Anyone else out there run into this can of worms and maybe figured out the fix?

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Techpro Security
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October 12, 2015 - 11:16 am
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Hello, 

When this issue happens can you tell if the cameras are rebooting? how many of these 2 model cameras do you have on this Hybrid dvd?

 

Thanks

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Dan Maresca
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October 12, 2015 - 12:22 pm
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When the cameras drop off can you log into them locally through their respective web-service? 

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West Coast Jones
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October 14, 2015 - 2:08 pm
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Hi Jesus,

I do not think the cameras are rebooting, unless they are able to do so independently of each other (IP cameras) or the analog cameras.

I have one of each of the IP cameras, for 2 total.

Right now I am only running 1, as the 2 Megapixel ONVIF TP Series IP Long Range IR Bullet Camera [#IPOB-TP2MP250L660-W]quit working a couple of days ago.

I have a request email in to SCK and am waiting for help on that through the help desk. case #45964.

FYI, the remaining IP camera still has the record skip problem time to time. It never is/was as bad as the long range camera though.

 

Hi Dan,

I do not have the DVR hooked up to the web when this is happening, as for some reason, my wife’s computer has some kind of conflict and freezes when she attempts to log in to our DSL when the DVR is also hooked into the modem. I do not have that problem on mine. Strange?

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javajeff
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October 15, 2015 - 11:26 am
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Just to chime in here, your cameras are on your main network, so you could have a network traffic issue.  The FPS setting is only one part of the bandwidth requirement.  You can try reducing the frames on your second stream, setting iFrames on both streams to 25 FPS, and lowering your bit rate to the minimum i.e. 2048 or lower if possible.  Make sure the second stream settings are low, since they are only used for cell phones or small windows which do not show detail.

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West Coast Jones
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October 30, 2015 - 10:08 pm
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I am not all that up on network stuff, so bear that in mind here in case some of my questions sound just plain strange.

The connection I have for my IP camera’s, well camera right now since the Long Range IPOB-TP2MP250L660-W camera died on me, is connected to my DVR/NVR directly through a 4 Port POE Switch with 1 GB up link SCK# POE-4G1G, and then run straight to port 2 on the DVR/NVR.

Port 1 on the DVR/NVR is set to run to my DSL modem via a 30′ CAT5 run in another part of the house. It is also disconnected at the wall most of the time as one of our 2 computers, my wife’s, locks up when she connects to the DSL internet when the DVR/NVR is also connected. I have not been able to sort out that problem, so I disconnect the run at port 1 so I can continue to live with her, ha.

So would the recording skips be impacted by my main network in this setup?

Also, I do have all the fps for all camera, analog 7 running, and the IP 1 running now, at 15 fps.

Not sure what the bit rate is set to on the IP camera, but they were set by the SCK tech when he set the 2 IP cameras up for me online. The 7 analog’s are most likely default settings for bit rate, as I have not made any changes there. Not sure if the SCK tech did for sure or not, but do not think he made any changes to them. I do not think there is any recording going on in the second stream at this point as I haven’t been making use of the internet and phone to view yet, so I think they are off.

Right now the only remaining IP camera running, the 2MP 1080p Network IP IR Dome Security Camera [#ELI-SIP-EMVD-21-4R]still skips recording from time to time. But the missing times are not too long and usually a number of hours apart. This camera was always the better between the 2 IP's I was running as far as constant recording.

I have a new IP camera coming as the one that went down was under warranty, and SCK made good on the problem after sending me the RMA and checking it out at their Colorado shop.

They were also kind enough to allow me to upgrade to another camera they say is made to run with the HYBDVR-FEo16480 DVR/NVR I bought from them about a year back, by making a store credit for the bad camera and putting that toward the new camera.

It will also be an IP camera but will be a IPPTZ-EL2L12X-MINI-O PTZ camera. Be interesting to see how it mates up to my system.

Also, how do you tell if your camera’s are booting on there own? I didn’t know they did this? Thought you had to set that up in a schedule or do it manually?

Another thought I have is that maybe there is some kind of conflict going on when I go to the DVR/NVR to run my one analog PTZ or to digitally zoom in on any of the other camera’s?

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javajeff
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November 2, 2015 - 9:11 am
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IP cameras connect to NVRs so the recording can be done.  That is all that an NVR does since the encoding is done at the camera level.  If the Video data does not reach the NVR, it will not record and will show up as missing footage to you.  If you are using a main network, other traffic can cause the data loss as the pipe is only so big.  There can be collisions just like in any traffic situation.

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Dan Maresca
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November 2, 2015 - 2:02 pm
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West Coast Jones said
I am not all that up on network stuff, so bear that in mind here in case some of my questions sound just plain strange.

The connection I have for my IP camera’s, well camera right now since the Long Range IPOB-TP2MP250L660-W camera died on me, is connected to my DVR/NVR directly through a 4 Port POE Switch with 1 GB up link SCK# POE-4G1G, and then run straight to port 2 on the DVR/NVR.

Port 1 on the DVR/NVR is set to run to my DSL modem via a 30′ CAT5 run in another part of the house. It is also disconnected at the wall most of the time as one of our 2 computers, my wife’s, locks up when she connects to the DSL internet when the DVR/NVR is also connected. I have not been able to sort out that problem, so I disconnect the run at port 1 so I can continue to live with her, ha.

If I understand you right that poe switch is not connected to your router? With what you described it should not be. Also with it connected the way you describe the cameras and Ethernet port on nvr connected to that switch should be a different sub-net than you regular network. As for the other computer you have that cannot get online when dvr is connected that makes me think the dvr and that pc have the same ip address. If not the dvr then some other connected device has the same ip address.  You might have a jabbering nic somewhere but if this is been going on since you connected everything i would lean towards ip conflict. 

 

Ip addresses are like USPS addresses, everybody has to have their own or you are not going to get anything. 

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West Coast Jones
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November 4, 2015 - 2:11 am
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My POE switch is not hooked into the PK5001Z modem, it is direct to port 2 on the DVR.

Port 1 on the DVR when hooked up is connected to the PK5001Z modem.

PK5001Z modem connects to DSL, to my computer, to wife’s computer, & to DVR when it is plugged in at it’s port 1.

Looking at the device table on my PK5001Z modem, it shows the IP address of the DVR & that of my wife’s computer to be different.

Wife’s computer connects to DSL line fine unless the DVR is also connected to the PK5001Z modem. Never had any problems until the DVR was added to the mix.

What in the world is a “jabbering nic”?

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November 4, 2015 - 9:05 am
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If you have a 2 Ethernet port NVR, then port 2 should be a separate network.  Example, Ethernet port 1 = 192.168.1.1 and Ethernet port 2 = 192.168.2.1.  This is a multiaddress setup that takes your cameras off of your main network and reduces bandwidth and collision issues. Is this how you have it set up?

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Dan Maresca
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November 4, 2015 - 11:00 am
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What in the world is a “jabbering nic”?

It is a failing Ethernet port on a device that constantly pukes data onto the network. It slows down network bandwidth and can kick devices offline.

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West Coast Jones
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November 5, 2015 - 1:12 am
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DVR ports are #1 = 192.168.1.1 and Ethernet port 2 = 192.168.2.1, however I didn’t set them up that way, it was the default of the DVR I expect.

My replacement camera came in and I have it up and running now. It is a IPPTZ-EL2MPL-12X-Mini-O. I have it set to run in DVR port 1 powered by the transformer that came with it, as the POE-4G1G switch I got from SCK doesn’t have the power to run it. Since the other IP camera I have still needs it, the POE-4G1G, I left the POE hooked into DVR port 2.

Be interesting to see if there are any glitch’s. I am thinking that if there is a “jabbering nic” problem that interfered with my wife’s computer, it must be DVR port 1 as that was the one hooked into the PK5001Z modem. Odd though that it wouldn’t have effected my computer as well?

However the dropped recording up to this point has been going with the IP cameras running through the POE and DVR port 2. Be interesting to see what the new camera in port 1 does.

I am considering getting one of those smart POE’s that I have seen advertised that give you a power budget and sort out the power each hooked in device needs. Looks like I could hook both the low power ELI-SIP-EMVD-21-4R and the new EL2MPL-12X-Mini-O to a unit like that and gain back my port 1 for my network and internet connections again. Hope SCK stock up on some of those soon. They look to have their use’s.

As it stands right now, during the time span between losing the TP2MP250L660-W Long Range Onvif camera, the remaining ELI-SIP-EMVD-21-4R dome Onvif camera has been dropping recording 3 or 4 times per 24 hours for say 1 to 5 minutes at a time.

It was the TP2MP250L660-W that was dropping recording dozens of times in a 24 hour time frame. But then that camera gave up the ghost so might have been a camera fault related to that particular camera.

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javajeff
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November 5, 2015 - 5:37 pm
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IPPTZ-EL2MPL-12X-Mini-O ethernet port should plug directly into your router so you can add it to the HYBDVR-FE016480 as an IP camera.   You can attach IP cameras from either network to your DVR.

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West Coast Jones
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November 6, 2015 - 12:05 am
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I guess what you mean by router would be my PK5001Z modem? It is on the far side of the house from my DVR/NVR, so I do not use it to hook cameras into due to the longer wire runs needed. It also has all 4 available port used, that is when I route the DVR/NVR to it to put the DVR on the home network or to the internet, so no port left for camera.

The IPPTZ-EL2MPL-12X-Mini-O ran fine the last 24 hours, no dropping of recordings. Like I said, it is hooked into the DVR/NVR #1 port.

The ELI-SIP-EMVD-21-4R dome Onvif camera running through the POE and into DVR?NVR #2 port dropped off 3 or 4 times again, for between 1 to 4 minutes.

Still learning the ropes on the IPPTZ-EL2MPL-12X-Mini-O, not much help in the book that came with it. Can’t find anything there on how to really work it.

Is there something on line I could learn somethings from?

Really do take a shine to it’s quality of pictures, day & night are really fine. Like it a lot so far. Seems to work much better with my HYBDVR-FE016480 DVR/NVR.

Thanks for the recommendation on it Dan.

By the way, Zeke said not to run it through the POE-4G1G switch if it was connected to the transformer that came with it as he said it would fry the camera with too much power? That is why I have it running through port 1 on the DVR/NVR now. It would be far better for my setup if I could so it would free up DVR/NVR port 1 for my home network & internet link, but unless I can be certain not to fry the camera I don’t want to chance it.

Have you tested a hookup using the power pack that comes with the camera and running the CAT5 line through a POE-4G1G switch?

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West Coast Jones
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December 19, 2015 - 3:28 am
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So I have been running the new IPPTZ-EL2MPL-12X-Mni-O PTZ camera for over a month now along with the ELI-SIP-EMVD-21-4R dome camera I already had on line, these being the only 2 IP cameras on my system right now.

There is also 7 analog cameras running in the system.

I have not had too many problems with the new IP PTZ dropping recording time, and the IP dome camera has improved quite a bit as far as steady recording. It does still drop out segments once in a while, but not as badly as it had been doing when it was running with the Long Range IPOB-TP2MP250L660-W IP camera that I replaced with the IPPTZ-EL2MPL-12X-Mni-O camera. So much improvement there, but I would still like to find a fix so I can have good quality steady recordings, don’t want to chance not having recorded evidence at the wrong time.

I have tried dropping the fps down to 15 on all cameras, both on the main view and the 2nd stream, but that didn’t seem to make a difference. I think the bit rates are set pretty low, but maybe I could try dropping them some more? Would that include having to drop the rates on the analog cameras too, or only on the IP cameras?

Only real change other than the replacing the IPOB-TP2MP250L660_W camera with the IPPTZ-EL2MPL-12X-Mni-O camera is that the latter camera is running through port 2 on the back of the DVR/NVR rather than port 1 where all the other cameras are connected. As I saw a improvement in recording when that switch happened, could be a bandwidth collision issue as javajeff was thinking? That would kinda bum me out though as this is a 32 camera DVR/NVR, 16 analog & 16 IP camera capable, and I only have 7 analog + 2 IP cameras running on it now.

I am still hoping I can find a smart POE with a power budget that can run both my 12 & 24 volt DC IP cameras through one of the ports on the DVR/NVR and use the other to again hook into my PK5001Z modem to link up to my computers and the Internet. So if I do that do you think am I going to crash the bandwidth?

Another question I have is, since I have a wall wart running 24 V DC to the IPPTZ-EL2MPL-12X-Mni-O camera out at the camera location via the cameras power in pigtail and not through the CAT5 line, if I were to plug the CAT5 line from that camera into the POE-4G1G switch that now powers the 12 V DC powered ELI-SIP-EMVD-21-4R dome camera, would that fry something?

The reason I ask is, if I am able to do that, that would free up one of the DVR/NVR ports for my network use. Save me getting the smart switch I was talking about.

And again, has anyone actually tested this type of hookup, I do not want to risk frying something in my system with a theory!

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West Coast Jones
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January 1, 2016 - 12:15 am
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Judging by the no reply’s I recon I must have made the last post too confusing, so will try again.

 

When I ran 7 analog cameras & 2 IP cameras on my HYBDVR-FE016480 model DVR/NVR, I had the 7 analogs on the analog BNC DVR/NVR connections, and the 2 IP through a  POE-4G1G switch and into DVR/NVR port 1, I was having a deuce of a time keeping the 24/7 recording on one of the IP cameras from skipping badly, and the 2nd IP also skipping, however not quite so badly. No problems with the 7 analogs, one being a PTZ.

When one of the 2 MP type IP cameras quit working, [IPOB-TP2MP250L660-W], I replaced it with an different one, upgrading it to a IPPTZ-EL2MPL-12X-Mni-O camera.

As this IPPTZ-EL2MPL-12X-Mni-O camera needs 24 vdc to work, and my power switch is only 12 vdc I had to power it with its own power supply that came with it.

I had one person at SCK tell me I could power the IPPTZ-EL2MPL-12X-Mni-O by its own power supply hooked to the pigtail out of the camera and still keep the camera CAT5 line connected through the 12VDC power switch into port 1 on my DVR/NVR, and another person at SCK tell me that that would burn out something if I did.

Don’t want to chance that until I get solid advice on the matter, so I have the IPPTZ-EL2MPL-12X-Mni-O powered by its 24 vdc power supply, and the camera hooked into port 2 on the DVR/NVR, and the other 12VDC IP camera, a ELI-SIP-EMVD-21-4R, still running through the POE-4G1G switch and into DVR/NVR port 1.

Doing this I notice a lot of improvement in the recording stability on the 2 IP cameras, mostly seem to skip recording now only for a short spurt when I first run the “search” feature reviewing the tapes for the most part.

javajeff thought the recording skips might have something to do with bandwidth problems, and maybe it is.

However, with only 2 each 2 MP IP cameras hooked up to the DVR/NVR via the Ethernet port 1, I sure hope that is not the case, seeing as how this is a 16 analog & 16 IP capable DVR/NVR. I would expect it to be able to handle only 7 analog cameras and 2 IP cameras?

In any case, at the moment I now have both of the DVR/NVR Ethernet ports tied up using only 1 IP camera each, so noway to connect to my PK5001Z modem/router and my computers or DSL line.

That is why I would be obliged for some input on the option of connecting the POE-4G1G switch [12vdc] to both my IP cameras and only one of the DVR/NVR ports freeing up the 2nd port.

Again, that would require the IPPTZ-EL2MPL-12X-Mni-O camera to also have to be powered by its own 12vdc power supply at the camera power pigtail, and a CAT5 line running to it that comes from the 12vdc POE-4G1G switch. And my gut feeling is that that could very well cause a FOOBAR situation, unless the 12vdc coming to the camera via the CAT5 does not accumulate with the 24vdc being fed to the camera making it like 36vdc or something, not to mention amp increase?

Don’t want that, it is a higher end camera and sure as hell do not want to ruin it, or the POE-4G1G switch, the other IP camera, and for all I know the DVR/NVR as well?

So unless someone is an expert on this, hopefully having made this type of connection in the past, and can assure me it is safe, I can see no other option to gain back my 2nd DVR/NVR port other than by use of a smart switch that feeds the required 12vdc to one camera and 24vdc to the other, and connect the smart power switch to only one of the DVR/NVR ports.

As for the bandwidth being the problem when it comes to the DVR/NVR recording dropping off, I will take photos of the settings I have for the cameras on the DVR/NVR and maybe someone out there will see something I am missing. I am thinking I have things set pretty much in the low end now?

analog-1-PTZ.jpgImage Enlarger

Camera 1 is an analog PTZ.

analogs-2-7.jpgImage Enlarger

Camera 2,3,4,5,6,7 are analog dome cameras with same settings as 2 shown here on 2, except camera 3, 4, & 5 also have the Audio/Video boxes and the both the 48-320kb/s boxes turned on in addition to what is shown on 2.

All analog cameras 1 through 7 connect to the DVR/NVR BNC video and RCA audio connections via CAT5 and Baluns.

IP-dome.jpgImage Enlarger

Camera 17 [IP] is the ELI-SIP-EMVD-21-4R, running through the POE-4G1G switch and into DVR/NVR Ethernet port 1 via CAT5 wire.

IP-PTZ.jpgImage Enlarger

Camera 18 [IP] is the IPPTZ-EL2MPL-12X-Mni-O, running into DVR/NVR Ethernet port 2 via CAT5 with power to the camera provided by the 24vdc power supply that came with the camera connected to the power only pigtail coming out of the camera.

So, does this lengthy and I hope detailed info spark any suggestions as to:

(1) 12vdc & 24vdc IP camera hookup using the existing POE-4G1G switch?

(2) Bandwidth being the problem with the recording gaps in the IP camera?

record-2.jpgImage Enlarger

[Recording gaps, not as bad now as this photo taken at the begging of this thread, but still happening.]

Thanks for any help in advance.

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West Coast Jones
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January 1, 2016 - 6:13 pm
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Oops, big change here.

The power to the IPPTZ-EL2MPL-12X-Mni-O camera is 24vac, not 24vdc.

So for powering a 12vdc IP camera and a 24vac camera and still going through a POE switch and connecting to only port 1 on the DVR just got more complicated!

Have not checked yet, but if there are 24vac POE switches on the market, could a unit like that be used to power the 12vdc camera by hooking in a “Voltage Converter 24VAC to 12VDC 1.5A, Product# CV-24AC-12VDC” at the CAT5 wire end at the camera, and thereby allow running both my IP camera into only 1 of the DVR Ethernet ports?

If so, anyone have a recommendation on a POE power switch?

OR, is it still possible to hook up my IPPTZ-EL2MPL-12X-Mni-O to my current 12vdc POE-4G1G switch with the CAT5 running from the camera and the cameras 24vac power hooked to the pigtail from the camera as it is?

I question here is, will the camera back feed it’s 24vac through the CAT5 line and fry things like the 12vdc POE switch and maybe more, or the 12vdc POE running the other way through the CAT5 and frying the camera?

Maybe getting the IPPTZ-EL2MPL-12X-Mni-O, or any 24vac item and adding it to my 12vdc system was not such a good idea after all.

Hope someone can answer that. At the moment things seem pretty risky at best too me!

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Jose Malave
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January 4, 2016 - 8:45 am
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There are two different types of PoE Power this camera requires PoE Plus. The PoE that is built into our recorder will only do 802.3af-2003 wich is 15.4W this camera requires 802.3at-2009 wich is PoE Plus ant it give 25.5 W of power.

PoE is 48V not 24vDC or AC you are refering to the other power input that this camera has. Please do not confuse one with the other as you may end up damaging the device.

 

You need these here 

POE-1G

POE-1P

POE-4MBP

POE-8MB1P

POE-16MB2GP

POE-24MB2GP

 

Here is some information on the differences in PoE Tech. 

PoE Wiki

 

As you can see we have many of these to choose from please give us a call at 866 573-8878 option 2 so that you can speak to a Sales rep. and purchase the correct item. 

************* Please do not feed the camera with both PoE and 24VAC. ********************

 Jose Malave - IT Director| Toll Free: 866-573-8878 | E-mail: support@securitycameraking.com

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West Coast Jones
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January 4, 2016 - 7:40 pm
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Thanks Jose,

So there is no way to power the IPPTZ-EL2MPL-12X-Mni-O using the 24v power supply that came with the camera, and connect both my current IP cameras to only 1 of the DVR ethernet ports?

Here is a schematic of my current hookup, FYI.

Security-DVR-setup.jpgImage Enlarger

Here is a method one of the SCK folks said would work, but another said would not, and could fry something?

PoE-chain.jpgImage Enlarger

\

Do you see a way to free up a DVR port for my internet use and still keep both IP cameras online for the most bang for the buck?

Also, there is not a POE built into the HYBDVR-FE016480, were you maybe talking about the POE-4G1G switch I have?

Thanks in advance.

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Jose Malave
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January 5, 2016 - 8:58 am
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With the HYBDVR-FE016480 you can use the second NIC to do this, of ourse I was refering to a PoE Switch. 

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